News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

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PeFe
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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#766 Post by PeFe » Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:42 pm

claybro wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:51 pm
PeFe wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:50 pm
What??!! Source....Opinion masquerading as fact....my guess is that between midnight and 6am wind provides 30-40% of power in SA.
Not at all. A quick search of freely available information on the net shows power generation mix for the various states. Over the last month, wind has rarely achieved that amount overnight, some nights yes-calm nights no- even in SA. It has barely reached that level even durning the day...it has been comparatively calm on many days over the last few weeks. For the whole of SE Australia, it fares much worse. Opinion masquerading as fact?...then you say "my guess is that....?
My source? -Energy Matters has an interactive chart for all states and all types of generation including battery and rooftop solar- but there are other offical sites as well. As at 3;30 pm today SA time...you are generating negligible power from wind.-Solar is doing well today in SA at around 50% -must be a nice calm sunny day over there...but 50% is gas...and soon the sun is going to loose its strength in about an hour...good bye solar. The rest of the country is even worse...around 85% is coal, and gas except for Tassie hydro...100% in that state. Solar has completely dropped off in the Eastern states...it is 4pm there. On a weekday-the renewable PERCENTAGE of power use on a day like today would be even worse-so by 4pm...no renewables to speak of...you will need one hell of a battery to keep everyone in power for the remaining 15 hours until mid morning tomorrow.-Pumped hydro?...not sure the renewables would have pumped enough water today even if we could find enough dam sites.
Once again-I am not suggesting getting rid of renewables, they have their place in the mix, but we are being told renewables will be ready in 10 years or so to completely run the grid. We can't be designing a power grid by telling people when and how they can heat their hot water,- large scale industry certainly will not operate like that, they will just offshore where China and India are building coal fired power stations like there is no tomorrow.
South Australia is indeed much further down the path to renewables than the rest of Australia, 50% for the last 4 years, so I focus my discussion on South Australia (because this is a South Australian forum) and the fact that no where else in the country has gone so far down this path. (Sorry Tasmania you never made a transition from fossil fuels to renewables, you added some wind to basically a hydro power source)

https://www.energymagazine.com.au/2019- ... gy-uptake/

There is no contradiction between renewable power and industrial development.....Sanjeev Gupta is about to build a large solar farm to power his incredibly hungry Whyalla steelworks. He also plans a pumped-hydro plant in the Middleback Ranges and a large battery in Port Augusta. My money is on the battery making it to fruition......pumped hydro is increasingly looking less attractive (economically) compared to batteries....

Also Sanjeev Gupta has signed a "memorandum of understanding" with the South Australian Minerals Council. I do not know the detail of this agreement but my guess Sanjeev would like to sell a lot of power to the Roxby Downs and Carapateena mines.

Invoking China and India in the arguments is really irrelevant on lots of levels......China is a totalitarian state where "other" views are not tolerated....
India is less developed country with a totally different cost structure (ie wages) underdeveloped infrastructure and safety standards.

https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... than-coal/

https://www.argusmedia.com/en/news/2116 ... strip-coal

https://stockhead.com.au/energy/india-e ... -the-dust/

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#767 Post by Spurdo » Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:21 pm

I can say as someone who would be considered an “average person”, I would not at all be ok with going from having electricity 24/7, 365 days a year, to basically having a 1984 style Command Economy where I am told when I am allowed to turn on my Air Conditioner or take a shower. If this is the plan you renewables advocates have for the future, then I must say that you are going to piss off practically everyone in the country.

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#768 Post by bits » Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:22 pm


Spurdo wrote:I would not at all be ok with going from having electricity 24/7, 365 days a year, to basically having a 1984 style Command Economy where I am told when I am allowed to turn on my Air Conditioner or take a shower. If this is the plan you renewables advocates have for the future, then I must say that you are going to piss off practically everyone in the country.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that you will be forced to take showers or use your aircon at a certain time.
But there will continue to be cost signals used to encourage certain usage to certain times of the day.
That is what happened in 1984, 1994, 2004, 2014 and will continued to happen in 2024.

I also remember load shedding due to lack of generation capacity and equipment failures causing power blackouts since forever.
However load shedding and equipment failure appear to have become less often all while renewables have increased.

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#769 Post by claybro » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:51 pm

PeFe wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:42 pm
here is no contradiction between renewable power and industrial development.....Sanjeev Gupta is about to build a large solar farm to power his incredibly hungry Whyalla steelworks. He also plans a pumped-hydro plant in the Middleback Ranges and a large battery in Port Augusta. My money is on the battery making it to fruition......pumped hydro is increasingly looking less attractive (economically) compared to batteries....
Are you sue that Sanjeev is going to be able to run his steel mill on battery power alone overnight? To be honest I am not aware how much power his battery can supply over what time frame and what drawdown the steel works has over the same timeframe. Sure.. it will ride out the switch over to grid power which will, on a still calm night be operating on gas. I admire Sanjeev and his ability to keep a business case for the Whyalla steel works, and the community as a whole, but I suspect his foray into renewables is about making money from playing the electricity market rather than running his steel works. Is his solar array and battery going to be islanded only for the steelworks-or is it to feed into the grid?-If it is connected to the grid-I am suspicious that his motivation is more about playing the electricity market-and sure...the solar probably saves hime a fortune in daytime power, and offsets the steel works carbon emissions. Good luck to him, he is a great advocate for the Whyalla community. As for any pumped hydro?-There is not enough energy produced from his solar farm over the timeframe required to pump enough water to charge the battery and run the steel works.

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#770 Post by PeFe » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:35 am

The information I have read on Sanjeev Gupta's solar farm indicates it will be connected to the grid and therefore selling electricity into the market. But how into the market? The reason I mentioned the Mineral Council's letter of memorandum is that I believe he intends to sell electricity directly (avoiding the retailer) to mining companies ie Roxby and Carapateena mines. I have no proof, or source, it is just a gut feeling.....and if there is any left over that can be sold at spot rates.

The Cultana Solar Farm is designed to be 280mw (thats a pretty hefty solar farm, not the biggest in Australia but still quite substantial)
The proposed pumped hydro at the Middleback Ranges was to be a 90mw times 4 hours.
How much electricity does the Whyalla Steelworks consume on an average day? I don't know....Does it run 24 hours a day at full steam or does it run at full capacity during business hours and then winds back outside daytime hours? Again I don't know.

I think there is some sort of clue in the capacity of the pumped hydro, 90mw, is that more than the average electricity demand at any one time during the day or is it about the evening demand? This may be confidential commercial information.

The proposed Playford battery at Port Augusta was touted as 100mw but with no other detail (10Omwh capacity or 100mw maximum discharge at one time?)

Even if the steelworks runs 24 hours a day I would presume the overnight production (ie between midnight and 6am) is very limited and therefore electricity demand is equally small.....you could just do a deal with a retailer for a very low price for that time of day. (Which is probably what they do now......why pay premium electricity prices at lowest demand time of day)

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#771 Post by PeFe » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:54 pm

SA Water is tracking well in its solar installations.
From Solar Quotes
SA Water’s Solar Rollout On Track

Image

SA Water says it remains on schedule with its massive solar panel rollout, even given the challenges thrust upon it by COVID-19.

Back in 2017, the utility announced a goal of $0 net electricity costs by the end of 2020; with solar energy to play a major role. In early January this year, SA Water announced it was investing more than $300 million in solar installations over 2020 and 500,000 solar panels would be installed at 35 sites throughout the state during this year.

Then COVID-19 threatened to throw a spanner in the works.

However, SA Water says it and ElectraNet, have worked together to keep the ball rolling. ElectraNet owns and manages South Australia’s 5,600 kilometre high voltage transmission network and has been contracted to complete six large-scale substation upgrades. This work will enable surplus solar electricity generated by SA Water to be supplied into the National Electricity Market.

One of these upgrades is in relation to the third pump station on the Morgan to Whyalla Pipeline, at Geranium Plains near Robertstown. SA Water says approximately 19,000 panels at the 7.5MW plant will generate more than 14 gigawatt hours of electricity (assumed annually) and will connect to ElectraNet’s existing substation on the 132 kilovolt network.

“.. together with ElectraNet we applied new ways of working to uphold strict social distancing and hygiene standards, including the adoption of virtual meetings and reducing personnel numbers on site when completing and confirming isolations,” says SA Water’s Senior Manager Zero Cost Energy Future Nicola Murphy.

From An $83 Million Power Bill To $0
SA Water is one of the state’s largest energy consumers. In 2018/19, the utility’s electricity bill was a whopping $83 million. To go from that figure to $0 net so quickly will be quite an achievement.

To date, more 147,000 solar panels have been installed at various sites including the Bolivar Wastewater Treatment Plant, Adelaide Desalination Plant and Christies Beach Wastewater Treatment Plant. With around 350,000 panels left to go, there’s a very busy time ahead.

Ms. Murphy appears confident given the progress already made under challenging conditions.

“Maintaining progress during the peak of the restrictions has held us in good stead and was so important – avoiding potential scrambles to recover lost time and regroup the highly skilled construction and delivery workforce that could have dispersed if they weren’t kept in work.”

All up, around 154MW of solar capacity is to be installed for the entire project, along with 34MWh of battery storage. Regarding the latter, there wasn’t any mention of how that side of things is progressing.

https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/sa- ... ut-mb1581/

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#772 Post by PeFe » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:15 pm

Victoria is now top wind power producer in Australia, relegating South Australia to second. This the way things will stay for the forseeable future until NSW builds a lot more wind farms.

From Renew Economy
Graph of the Day: Victoria blows past South Australia as top wind producer

Image


A record month of wind energy generation on the National Electricity Market in May has also delivered a new leader in the volume of wind power sent to the grid, with Victoria creeping past renewables powerhouse, South Australia for the first time.

The new wind order was revealed in The Australia Insitute’s National Energy Emissions Audit for May, which notched up the highest ever monthly level of wind generation, according to report author Hugh Saddler.

The chart below, showing average monthly wind generation in each state, shows that Victoria has now overtaken South Australia as the state which usually has the largest volume of wind generation.

Image

A relationship, says Saddler, that “seems certain to continue,” with several very large wind farms in western Victoria either very close to completion or recently commissioned and gradually scaling-up production.

In April of this year, three major projects – the Cherry Tree, Dundonnell, and the second part of the Lal Lal wind farm – started sending power to the Victorian grid.

And just last week, the first half of the massive 312MW Moorabool wind farm in central-western Victoria was completed, with Goldwind Australia announcing that the 50 turbines of the north section of the project would soon begin the process of connecting to the grid, while the first of 54 turbines in the second section, known as Moorabool South, was also now fully installed.

South Australia, of course, still leads in terms of share of total demand satisfied by wind generation with around 40 per cent in the last 12 months.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/graph-of-th ... cer-26148/

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#773 Post by SBD » Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:44 pm

What might be the next big wind farm in SA, and what does it need to make it happen?
  • Ceres Project on Yorke Peninsula - possibly waiting for Rex Minerals' Hillside Mine near Ardrossan
  • Port Augusta Renewable Energy Park
  • Twin Creek - opponents talk about destroying wombat habitat and the Barossa environment (50km away) - probably does less damage to the Barossa's reputation than a nuclear power station or waste dump in the Champagne region of France does to wine there.
  • Palmer - appeals against the development were dismissed last year

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#774 Post by PeFe » Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:45 am

More details on the SA Water rollout of small solar farms and associated batteries.

From Renew Economy
Nine new solar farms and two big batteries proposed for South Australia

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The South Australia state energy regulator says it has received proposals for a total of nine new solar farms, two of which will be accompanied by battery storage, to meet the zero emission plans of the state water utility and the state’s capital city.

The Essential Services Commission of South Australia unveiled the proposals on its website this week. All nine solar farms are sized between 2.4MW and 19MW, and are earmarked for a state already sourcing more than half of its electricity from wind and solar, and heading towards net 100 per cent renewables by 2030.

The bulk of the applications come from the state utility S.A. Water, which is in the process of sourcing the equivalent of all its electricity needs from renewables, and particularly co-located solar farms. Its aim is to reach “zero cost” electricity bills as a result of all the solar and battery storage that it installs across its facilities.

Its list of seven new solar projects submitted to ESCOSA include a 19.24MW solar farm at Bolivar waste treatment plant, a 15.5MW solar farm at the Adelaide Desalination Plant, a 3.675MW solar plant at Glenelg, and four solar plants ranging between 5.5MW and 7.5MW at pump stations along the Morgan to Whyalla pipeline.

The two biggest solar farms will be accompanied by battery storage, with both the Bolivar and the Adelaide desalination facilities to feature 70 battery units for a total of 12.3MWh each. In all, it aims to install a total of 154MW of solar and 34MWh of battery storage

Its principal suppliers for these newly identified projects are JA Solar for the modules, and SMA for the inverters. The supplier for the battery storage units – each of 176kWh – is not identified.

In addition, emerging retailer and business supplier Flow Power is proposing two small solar farms that will form part of its long term power purchase agreement with the City of Adelaide, and its promise to deliver the equivalent of all its electricity consumption from renewables.

The two projects include a 3MW solar farm with a maximum export capacity of 2.4MW at the isolated community of Streaky Bay on the western side of the Eyre Peninsular, and a 4.95MW solar farm with a maximum output of 4.46MW at Coonalpyn, between Tailem Bend and the Victoria border.

Flow Power will take the output from both the Streaky Bay and Coonalpyn facilities to support the deal with the City of Adelaide, which is also taking output from the Clements Gap wind farm in the state’s mid-north.

Both solar farms will feature ground-mount PV Jinko modules, Nextracker single axis trackers, and SMA inverters. Today Solar has been named as the EPC contractor.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/nine-new-so ... lia-13135/

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#775 Post by PeFe » Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:12 am

I really hope the Iberdrola Port Augusta project is not far from construction.

From Renew Economy
Vestas lands big wind turbine contract in Australia, most likely Port Augusta

Image

International wind turbine manufacturer and developer Vestas appears to have landed the supply contract for the huge 320MW wind-solar hybrid project at Port Augusta in South Australia that is being built by Spanish energy giant Iberdrola and DP Energy.

The Port Augusta Renewable Energy Hub will combine 210MW of wind energy and 110MW of solar, and will be the biggest hybrid wind-solar project in Australia when completed, but will likely only be the first of many such hybrids planned for South Australia, particularly after a new transmission line is built to NSW.

Vestas issued a short statement overnight saying that it had received an order for a 210MW project in Australia that includes the supply and installation of 50 of its V150-4.2 MW turbines, as well as a ten-year management service agreement.

“Commissioning of the turbines is scheduled to commence between the third and fourth quarter of 2021,” it said. But it added: “The project and customer names are undisclosed.”

It was one of a number of turbine contracts announced by Vestas overnight – in an end-of-quarter rush – in the Americas, Europe and Asia. Only the Australian customer was not identified. Vestas did not respond to further queries, and neither did the Port Augusta partners.

But Port Augusta stands out as the most likely project. The 210MW wind component of the Port Augusta project is the only one that fits the scale, and the proposed timeline outlined by Vestas.

The go-ahead for the Port Augusta project, near the site of the state’s last coal fired generator, closed in 2016, and not far from the new Bungala solar projects and Lincoln Gap wind project, was announced earlier this year after DP Energy announced that Iberdrola had come on board and would finance the project.

The Bilbao-based Iberdrola said it had developed a 650MW pipeline in Australia after “spending several years studying opportunities there,” and the broader Asia-Pacific region and saw “tremendous potential” for growth in Australia.

Since then, it has launched an $864 million bid for the listed renewable energy developer Infigen Energy, which owns wind farms in South Australia, Victoria and NSW, as well as the Lake Bonney big battery in South Australia. It is now locked in a bidding war for that company with a consortium led by UPC Renewables.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/vestas-land ... sta-52148/

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