[U/C] Northern Connector | 14km | $1b

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Omicron
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[U/C] Re: #Proposed : 'Northern Connector'

#46 Post by Omicron » Sun Mar 09, 2008 12:08 am

One billion dollars for 14 kilometres of road and rail; no wonder transport projects take so long to come to fruition. Of course, I shouldn't really be surprised, given the eye-opening quote to replace a pipe underneath our driveway......

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[U/C] Re: #Proposed : 'Northern Connector'

#47 Post by Bulldozer » Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:57 am

There's more pressing concerns for public expenditure in SA and other areas where you'd get a better ROI. (I can't help but think that spending money on improving the rail system would do more to improve traffic flows over the whole city.) It's going to run pretty much parallel to Pt Wakefield Rd so why not just upgrade that to a freeway standard by getting rid of the signaled intersections, or are they going to let it become another Main North Rd? There's ample space along Pt Wakefield Rd for this and the provision of more access roads if needed.

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[U/C] Re: #Proposed : 'Northern Connector'

#48 Post by monotonehell » Sun Mar 09, 2008 2:18 am

Bulldozer wrote:There's more pressing concerns for public expenditure in SA and other areas where you'd get a better ROI. (I can't help but think that spending money on improving the rail system would do more to improve traffic flows over the whole city.) It's going to run pretty much parallel to Pt Wakefield Rd so why not just upgrade that to a freeway standard by getting rid of the signaled intersections, or are they going to let it become another Main North Rd? There's ample space along Pt Wakefield Rd for this and the provision of more access roads if needed.
Possibly because the need for both a local link road and a freeway to bypass the local is needed? The existing Pt Wakefield Road services a lot of existing sideroads that would be bypassed if converted. You cant provide interchanges for every road that a freeway passes, it's cost inhibitive and a logistical nightmare that slows the whole system down?

Maybe. I'm just throwing out possibilities.
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[U/C] Re: #Proposed : 'Northern Connector'

#49 Post by jimmy_2486 » Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:10 am

Wow, maybe after this project, Wingfield will become just as big a bottle neck as Bedford Park!!

Im guessing it will be 90-110km/h from gawler to wingfield so heaps of commuters will use it as well.

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[U/C] Re: #Proposed : 'Northern Connector'

#50 Post by Mants » Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:20 pm

honestly, duplicating the southern expressway and upgrading Victor Harbor Road to freeway standard is far more important that this.

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[U/C] Re: #Proposed : 'Northern Connector'

#51 Post by Norman » Sun Mar 09, 2008 2:05 pm

As it's been said before, the mining boom requires a lot more road & rail infrastructure than what is currently there. Plus Victor Harbor Road isn't that bad, it's just idiot drivers who can't driver or drink and drive.

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[U/C] Re: #Proposed : 'Northern Connector'

#52 Post by Ho Really » Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:15 pm

Norman wrote:As it's been said before, the mining boom requires a lot more road & rail infrastructure than what is currently there. Plus Victor Harbor Road isn't that bad, it's just idiot drivers who can't driver or drink and drive.
I would say a Victor Harbor dual carriageway, duplicating Southern Expressway and what has been proposed here are all important if we want all parts of the state to boom.

I still believe an upgrade of Port Wakefield Road to handle suburban and freight traffic from the north is a cheaper and better option. As far as I know nothing has been said about freight for the mining boom going through our northern ports, Port Pirie, Whyalla and Port Bonython. I know Port Bonython will be improved for exports. If upgrades are done properly it would divert some traffic coming and going to Port Adelaide. Money should not be wasted, but spread around so it helps those communities up there as well. The government needs to show us the overall plan for us to make a proper judgment, I think.

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[U/C] Re: #Proposed : 'Northern Connector'

#53 Post by Norman » Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:19 pm

The south is already getting numerous South Road improvements.

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[U/C] Re: #Proposed : 'Northern Connector'

#54 Post by Bulldozer » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:44 pm

monotonehell wrote:Possibly because the need for both a local link road and a freeway to bypass the local is needed? The existing Pt Wakefield Road services a lot of existing sideroads that would be bypassed if converted. You cant provide interchanges for every road that a freeway passes, it's cost inhibitive and a logistical nightmare that slows the whole system down?
That's why you have service roads along the side of the freeway. Check out the Pacific Motorway between Brisbane and the Gold Coast.

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[U/C] Re: #Proposed : 'Northern Connector'

#55 Post by Wayno » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:52 pm

Ho Really wrote: <snip>
As far as I know nothing has been said about freight for the mining boom going through our northern ports, Port Pirie, Whyalla and Port Bonython. I know Port Bonython will be improved for exports. If upgrades are done properly it would divert some traffic coming and going to Port Adelaide. Money should not be wasted, but spread around so it helps those communities up there as well. The government needs to show us the overall plan for us to make a proper judgment, I think.
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The mining companies won't wait. They will build their own roads (or expand existing ones) where necessary with little impact on their profits. The SA Govt knows this and is playing a waiting game as these "free" roads will benefit all south aussies later on...
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[U/C] Re: #Proposed : 'Northern Connector'

#56 Post by Omicron » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:52 pm

Norman wrote:As it's been said before, the mining boom requires a lot more road & rail infrastructure than what is currently there. Plus Victor Harbor Road isn't that bad, it's just idiot drivers who can't driver or drink and drive.
People drive Victor Harbor Road as if it were a major freeway or highway - it's a country road, and should be treated as such.

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[U/C] Re: #Proposed : 'Northern Connector'

#57 Post by rhino » Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:50 am

While turniong Port Wakefield Road into a freeway might seem like a cheaper option at first, there are other things to be considered. Currently PWR is lined with businesses, which need access. The current road alignment means that land will have to be purchased to make the access roads, so that needs to be added to the cost - you can't just squeeze them in - there are standards which need to be adhered to. These service roads would need to be paved, 2-way roads, because of the amount of trucks and other traffic which will be using them - so, you need to buy up enough private land to put in 2 new paved 2-way roads. The brand new freeway option is looking better, and is only enhanced by putting the freight railways down the middle.

Now to the comment about the single rail line further north - well, this is a ridiculous comment. You have to start somewhere, don't you? You double-track the part that is going to give you the most benifit first, and so on.

Next - the comment about the Victor Harbor (yes, it's Harbor) Road being duplicated - there is a thread on this already and if you read it you will see that the infrastructure in the towns down on the south coast cannot, at this point, cope with the influx of traffic that a dual-lane VHR will bring. They're working on it, but they don't want it yet as it would cause havoc. Just learn to drive properly - it's a good road already.

As for MHS - all you hear from his is what he thinks you want to hear (what I want to hear is how he will fund his pie-in-the-sky projects) and opposition for opposition's sake. The man's a tool.
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[U/C] Re: #Proposed : 'Northern Connector'

#58 Post by AtD » Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:51 pm

rhino wrote:While turniong Port Wakefield Road into a freeway might seem like a cheaper option at first, there are other things to be considered. Currently PWR is lined with businesses, which need access. The current road alignment means that land will have to be purchased to make the access roads, so that needs to be added to the cost - you can't just squeeze them in - there are standards which need to be adhered to. These service roads would need to be paved, 2-way roads, because of the amount of trucks and other traffic which will be using them - so, you need to buy up enough private land to put in 2 new paved 2-way roads. The brand new freeway option is looking better, and is only enhanced by putting the freight railways down the middle.
Most of the section of Port Wakefield Road in question (north of Salisbury Highway) has vacant land either side. While there are a few businesses, many are already on service roads. For example, have a look at Google Maps

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[U/C] Re: #Proposed : 'Northern Connector'

#59 Post by Ho Really » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:06 pm

Wayno wrote:The mining companies won't wait. They will build their own roads (or expand existing ones) where necessary with little impact on their profits. The SA Govt knows this and is playing a waiting game as these "free" roads will benefit all south aussies later on...
Are you saying the private companies are going to fully fund the building of (future) public roads? Those roads on mining leases may well be privately built and possibly those to mining towns, but the rest would have to be either on a PPP basis or fully public.

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[U/C] Re: #Proposed : 'Northern Connector'

#60 Post by Ho Really » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:07 pm

AtD wrote:
rhino wrote:While turniong Port Wakefield Road into a freeway might seem like a cheaper option at first, there are other things to be considered. Currently PWR is lined with businesses, which need access. The current road alignment means that land will have to be purchased to make the access roads, so that needs to be added to the cost - you can't just squeeze them in - there are standards which need to be adhered to. These service roads would need to be paved, 2-way roads, because of the amount of trucks and other traffic which will be using them - so, you need to buy up enough private land to put in 2 new paved 2-way roads. The brand new freeway option is looking better, and is only enhanced by putting the freight railways down the middle.
Most of the section of Port Wakefield Road in question (north of Salisbury Highway) has vacant land either side. While there are a few businesses, many are already on service roads. For example, have a look at Google Maps
Thanks Adam.

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