News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

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Ho Really
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2776 Post by Ho Really » Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:16 pm

1NEEDS2POST wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:22 pm
Emirates chose to schedule their daily flight AT THE SAME TIME as Qatar. No wonder they are pulling out, there was essentially nothing to differentiate the two flights. The two international airlines flying from the Middle East to Adelaide couldn't coordinate and make one flight at a different time. :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash:
It actually was Qatar who chose to fly at a similar time as Emirates. Emirates was flying into Adelaide before Qatar. Besides both airlines have to fly similar schedules or else how would they get the best onward connections into Europe and vice versa? Also these two airlines are not that friendly with each other so I'm not sure how they'd work together. We're talking about the UAE and Qatar here. Not just competition but also politics.

Although Emirates led the way among the ME3 carriers with the hub and spoke model, into Adelaide Qatar has done the better job by flying a newer aircraft, the Airbus A350-900, with less crowded Economy and industry leading Business Class. If Emirates was bold enough they should've tried at least for a short time an A380-800. This was before Qatar started flying here. Perhaps that would've killed an attempt by Qatar. Now we'll have to wait and see how things pan out with COVID-19 and how EK makes its comeback, at what frequency and capacity.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2777 Post by Ho Really » Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:17 pm

SBD wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:42 pm
Agreed. Very few people like stopovers in their travel. I want a direct flight to my destination, or only one stop if possible. I also don't particularly like dom-intl transfers in Sydney, but not sure where else I have tried it for comparison.
Tourists in particular don't mind stopovers. It breaks up their journey. If you say layover or transit, then that too is not much of a hassle. From ADL we all do it in Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Hong Kong, Doha, Dubai and a few other places depending if we fly through MEL, SYD, BNE or PER. Sure, the business person is the one that wants less time spent transiting etc., if their work requires them to be somewhere asap. But even then many can do some work online out of hotels in between.
Ideally I will fly ADL-<somewhere>-destination. If I want to go to somewhere in North America, LAX or Honolulu improve my chances of only needing one more hop. ADL-<somewhere>-London my choices seem to be Perth or Dubai. Singapore is a good choice for much of the rest of Asia.
Well, Asia is the place for that if we get more flights originating from there. If we get a direct flight from the US (including Hawaii) that's another one. Choices are also based on which alliance you fly and if you have status. Oneworld have the advantage with QANTAS out of PER direct to LHR. Qatar, Cathay and Malaysia are the other choices. Emirates is still a good choice for QANTAS flyers. For Star Alliance it is Singapore Airlines and Air New Zealand. For SkyTeam there's no choice as China Southern left the alliance in 2019.
I don't know if it's business, freight or leisure travel that drives the airlines' choice of routes/endpoints. I imagine that available affordable flights drive leisure choices more than business or freight. Profitable journeys in both directions would be important for airlines. So a direct flight to/from Adelaide needs to join a hub with lots of onward connections to/from places that people and freight want to link to Adelaide. Does Adelaide have much high-value non-commodity outbound freight? Lobsters and fresh meat I assume are mostly opportunistic freight rather than imports that are specifically sought by the customers wanting SA produce.
It's a combination of all those factors that airlines look at for their routes. Passengers come first, especially those in the pointy end. For airlines the load factors and yields are imprortant. Usually 80% load factors are good. Passenger yields are hard to explain, but let's say the less pax on the cheapest fare the better. Freight is always there and it's not all fresh produce (perishables).

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2778 Post by Ho Really » Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:24 pm

SBD wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:42 pm
With Qantas retiring all of its 747s, and investing in long range 787s, I wonder if there are any end-points that could support non-stop flights to/from Adelaide. Do we have enough migrants, business connections and tourists (in and out) from concentrated places to operate regular flights direct to London (if the range is possible), Italy, Greece, India, Vietnam, South Sudan, Burundi or anywhere else? These are some of the accents I hear around Adelaide, but I don't know if any of them would want to visit back where they came from.
OlympusAnt wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:45 pm
Maybe an ADL-MEL-SIN or ADL-PER-SIN routing could be an option? Clear international customs in Adelaide and land at the international terminals in PER or MEL. Would also be handy for NZ connections.

I think these sorts of routes might become popular again when international flights resume.
arki wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:27 am
Frankly I think it is disgusting that Qantas doesn't fly international out of Adelaide and far less likely to do so now given current goings on. But what would be the use of having Qantas fly ADL-SIN (aside from making better use of QFF and Qantas Club)? Especially if it means a stop in either Perth of Melb. Direct ADL-SIN is going to be well covered if/when SIA go 2x daily, and I would rather book with SIA right through to another Asian destination if that is where I am heading.

Personally I think Qantas ADL-LAX would be a handy route to have, or at least ADL-HON.

We're talking about QANTAS here. They are very shrewd. If they haven't had a reason for direct international flights in the past I doubt they will introduce them anytime soon. Singapore was the only destination (and not even direct), and that was dropped years ago. New Zealand (Auckland or Christchurch) could be a chance if a bubble is introduced.

We have plenty of immigrants from many countries but none that would warrant direct flights. Not even the UK, business or tourism. It's easier for QANTAS to fly domestic to PER then LHR and the same with MEL then SIN to LHR.

Asia is still our best bet. China was a chance. Now with COVID-19 and the political situation we might not see anything happen for a while. China Southern dropped its flights. We also need to see whether CZ will align itself with Oneworld and QANTAS or remain outside the alliances. It was in SkyTeam before leaving. I think India has a future for Adelaide. At the moment they mostly fly with Singapore and Malaysia Airlines. Perhaps a further 20,000 immigrants from there might do the trick. Indians do fly back and forth at least once a year.

As for Singapore Airlines going twice daily there's doubts until COVID-19 is fully taken care of. If they do introduce the evening flight to SIN again it will be during our summer months, December and January and northern summer, June, July and perhaps August, but not all year round. For all year round they need us to travel more into Asia through Changi and viceversa. Europe is well taken care of by Qatar. They have done a good job of taking away many pax from SQ and more recently EK.

Our biggest issue is population. If Adelaide was similar to Perth and Brisbane, it would be a different story.

But talking about aviation and new routes in the current climate, not knowing what airlines will be around, the restrictions that will be the norm in future, how many will return to travelling and other issues, etc., is highly speculative and full of fraught.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2779 Post by arki » Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:53 pm

Ho Really wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:24 pm
We're talking about QANTAS here. They are very shrewd. If they haven't had a reason for direct international flights in the past I doubt they will introduce them anytime soon. Singapore was the only destination (and not even direct), and that was dropped years ago. New Zealand (Auckland or Christchurch) could be a chance if a bubble is introduced.

We have plenty of immigrants from many countries but none that would warrant direct flights. Not even the UK, business or tourism. It's easier for QANTAS to fly domestic to PER then LHR and the same with MEL then SIN to LHR.

Asia is still our best bet. China was a chance. Now with COVID-19 and the political situation we might not see anything happen for a while. China Southern dropped its flights. We also need to see whether CZ will align itself with Oneworld and QANTAS or remain outside the alliances. It was in SkyTeam before leaving. I think India has a future for Adelaide. At the moment they mostly fly with Singapore and Malaysia Airlines. Perhaps a further 20,000 immigrants from there might do the trick. Indians do fly back and forth at least once a year.

As for Singapore Airlines going twice daily there's doubts until COVID-19 is fully taken care of. If they do introduce the evening flight to SIN again it will be during our summer months, December and January and northern summer, June, July and perhaps August, but not all year round. For all year round they need us to travel more into Asia through Changi and viceversa. Europe is well taken care of by Qatar. They have done a good job of taking away many pax from SQ and more recently EK.

Our biggest issue is population. If Adelaide was similar to Perth and Brisbane, it would be a different story.

But talking about aviation and new routes in the current climate, not knowing what airlines will be around, the restrictions that will be the norm in future, how many will return to travelling and other issues, etc., is highly speculative and full of fraught.

Cheers
Agree with everything you are saying, especially re Qatar.

I still think direct to the US has merit (pre-COVID at least), maybe even PER-ADL-LAX, but you are right that if intl from Adelaide stacked up, Qantas would have done it.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2780 Post by kymbosa » Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:31 am

Ho Really wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:17 pm
Tourists in particular don't mind stopovers. It breaks up their journey. If you say layover or transit, then that too is not much of a hassle. From ADL we all do it in Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Hong Kong, Doha, Dubai and a few other places depending if we fly through MEL, SYD, BNE or PER. Sure, the business person is the one that wants less time spent transiting etc.,

Cheers
Speak for yourself. I know plenty of people, who like myself, just want to get to the end place the quickest. So making extra stops in Mel, Syd, Perth is just adding an extra 2 hrs to an already long trip is painful.

Travelling to the Uk/Euro is great, one stop over at an international port, mid way through is perfect, it doesn’t need more.

When covid passes, it will be different for a period of time than things will get back to normal with direct flights again.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2781 Post by Jaymz » Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:06 pm

I am definitely one of those people who, if given the option, would much prefer a 17 plus hour direct flight than having one or two stopovers. I find navigating unfamiliar airports an absolute annoyance.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2782 Post by SBD » Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:02 pm

Jaymz wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:06 pm
I am definitely one of those people who, if given the option, would much prefer a 17 plus hour direct flight than having one or two stopovers. I find navigating unfamiliar airports an absolute annoyance.
A deliberate layover in a foreign place, with enough time (a day or two) to get out and get a sample of the city is one thing. I have done that once or twice. A two-hour stressful connection (Sydney) or a six-hour boring connection (Singapore or LAX) are exactly that. Long enough to not be stressed, but not long enough to relax or see the sights. It just makes the journey I intended to make that much longer.

People with mobility difficulties might find intermediate stopovers even more difficult, and require assistance of airport or airline staff, and some stopovers might not have people who speak English, making the stopover even less attractive.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2783 Post by Ho Really » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:42 pm

kymbosa wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:31 am
Speak for yourself. I know plenty of people, who like myself, just want to get to the end place the quickest. So making extra stops in Mel, Syd, Perth is just adding an extra 2 hrs to an already long trip is painful.
Flying through MEL, SYD, BNE and PER is a pain for sure. Who wants to fly domestic, transit or layover while still in Australia? Unfortunately that's the case if you want to fly internationally with QANTAS or any other foreign airline not flying out of Adelaide.
Travelling to the Uk/Euro is great, one stop over at an international port, mid way through is perfect, it doesn’t need more.
I think you misunderstood me when I said tourists don't mind stopovers. A stopover can be one or more days in a hotel. Layover is a transit of many hours, like flying to SIN on SQ278 and arriving at approx 15:00 and then flying out to FCO on SQ366 at 02:05 the next day. A layover/transit of around 11 hours. Now that can be a pain if you are just sitting around or lying on a couch trying to rest. So yes direct flights make sense, especially to those that have already done many of the hubs and are not interested in leaving the airport to stay a day or so.
When covid passes, it will be different for a period of time than things will get back to normal with direct flights again.
Let's hope it is sooner than later. If what is happening in Melbourne gets any worse and happens again in Europe I think we'll be stuffed for way longer than we wish. Of course if they come up with an effective vaccine things will get back to some normality but don't bet on the flying experience getting any better. We will be subjected to more controls and restrictions than ever before.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2784 Post by Ho Really » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:50 pm

Jaymz wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:06 pm
I am definitely one of those people who, if given the option, would much prefer a 17 plus hour direct flight than having one or two stopovers. I find navigating unfamiliar airports an absolute annoyance.
Well that's what you're going to have endure if you fly subsonic. From Adelaide you can get to most places with one intermediate stop, so it isn't so bad. As for unfamiliar airports don't worry the one's that are on Adelaide routes are some of the best in the world...Changi, KLIA, Chek Lap Kok (HK), Hamad (Doha) and Dubai International. Even Auckland, Baiyun (Guangzhou) and Ngurah Rai (Bali) do OK. You won't get lost!

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2785 Post by Ho Really » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:59 pm

SBD wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:02 pm
[...]

People with mobility difficulties might find intermediate stopovers even more difficult, and require assistance of airport or airline staff, and some stopovers might not have people who speak English, making the stopover even less attractive.
Most airports are well equipped and staffed for people who have mobility issues. I accompanied a friend (now passed away) years ago to Rome via Singapore. He wanted to see Rome after 40 years. His dad was a pilot with QANTAS. He was very well looked after at Changi and at Fiumicino (Rome) and also back here in Adelaide. Also during the stopover in Singapore with the transfer to and from the hotel. Good airports will have English speakers, but even at lesser known airports English is a spoken language among those at info/service counters etc.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2786 Post by rev » Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:15 pm

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sou ... cf32108cb0

Image

Todays fog.
Haven't been out towards the airport for a while as we can't fly so no need to go obviously, but what's with the planes being parked at the aerobridges? Is that the norm or were they two flights today?

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2787 Post by ChillyPhilly » Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:20 pm

rev wrote:https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sou ... cf32108cb0

Image

Todays fog.
Haven't been out towards the airport for a while as we can't fly so no need to go obviously, but what's with the planes being parked at the aerobridges? Is that the norm or were they two flights today?
Limited flights are still running.
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2788 Post by SBD » Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:26 pm

ChillyPhilly wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:20 pm
rev wrote:https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sou ... cf32108cb0

Image

Todays fog.
Haven't been out towards the airport for a while as we can't fly so no need to go obviously, but what's with the planes being parked at the aerobridges? Is that the norm or were they two flights today?
Limited flights are still running.
According to the Adelaide Airport website, today's Qantas flights were QF661 arrived at gate 23 at 11:42am and QF662 to Brisbane left from gate 25 at 12:45pm. There were also round trips to Port Lincoln and Whyalla from gate 50, I assume on smaller planes.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2789 Post by Nort » Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:41 am

Is all the construction at the airport finished now, or is it still happening?

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

#2790 Post by Patrick_27 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:25 pm

Nort wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:41 am
Is all the construction at the airport finished now, or is it still happening?
Well and truly still happening, won't be finished until the end of next year.

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