SA Economy

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Nort
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Re: SA Economy

#526 Post by Nort » Wed May 13, 2020 2:52 pm

rev wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 1:00 pm
Nort wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 11:39 am
rev wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 8:33 am
My initial comment about Tesla/SpaceX etc, wasn't for SpaceX rockets and his big shiny silver 'space ship' to be launched here, it was a general comment. Perhaps they could launch things from here. Perhaps they could use the Woomera range to do test launches. But what they could definitely do is do research and development here, manufacture components and other things needed.
We are the spot for the Australian Space Agency HQ right? SpaceX is working with NASA. Australia & the USA are best pals, much technology is shared between both countries.
Why is it such a bad idea to bring the biggest private space company to South Australia? Particularly when the guy behind SpaceX is behind Tesla and he built the giant battery storage at Jamestown...? There's already a connection with Elon Musk to SA.
Seriously, just Google ITAR and read through the numerous stories about how that definitely is a lot harder than you think.
Nobody is talking about military systems.

In any case even if we were..
Australia is one of the few countries who has been given the AEGIS system for it's ships, specifically the Hobart class destroyers built here in Adelaide as well as on our future frigates. Australia is the only country which has certain other technologies shared by the United States that is currently also integrated into the Hobart destroyers.
We are receiving the F35 fighters, which only happen to be the most advanced fighter jets ever conceived and built. But sure you keep shouting ITAR ITAR ITAR, when we're talking about the civilian sector..(even though quite obviously the USA shares some of its top tech with our defence force already....)

Do you want to know how ITAR affects Australia?
People like you who are loyal ccp are prevented from getting a job at say ASC. Because there is the presence of US technologies such as the AEGIS system, therefore you are a national security risk not only to Australia but the United States.

That's what ITAR is about. Preventing US military technologies from falling into the hands of enemy countries, like China.
It's not designed to prevent close allied countries like Australia from receiving US military technologies.


Btw, Australia is already working closely with NASA on their next manned missions.
Australia has worked with NASA for 50+ years already.
What?

Also I keep bringing up ITAR because it is 100% relevant and a major roadblock when it comes to international rocketry development. The difference between a civilian launcher and a military launcher is basically just what payload you stick on top.

It's interesting you mention the F-35, because one major controversy over that program has been the fact that the US won't share with other countries source code and other information on how the aircraft actually works, restricting the ability of many countries (including Australia) to do local development work on the platform.

International collaboration is not impossible, and if you had proposed a company like Boeing it would be more likely (although still extremely difficult), but negotiating around ITAR and other rules is a prolonged, delicate, and notoriously difficult process that brings lots of risk and uncertainty for the companies involved. For a company like SpaceX which seems to use an Agile-like system of production management it would be close to impossible.

Again, I 100% agree with you that proposals of this scale and boldness are needed, but in this particular case the more you argue for it for more it seems to show you don't actually understand what you are proposing.

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Re: SA Economy

#527 Post by rev » Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:11 am

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/business ... 42b9720f68

Ohh look at that, the top industry leaders in the state are talking about bringing SpaceX to Adelaide.



As a state, we shouldn't be looking at Victoria in terms of rivalry. We should be looking at WA.
SA 1.7 million, $107 billion GSP
WA 2.6 million, $183 billion GSP
VIC 6.6 million, $446 billion GSP

That's where our competition lies, that's who we should be going toe to toe with. Not trying to mix it up with Victoria. Victoria has left us in their wake long ago.

How does WA have influence in the Liberal federal government? Their state government is Labor. We have a Liberal state government.
So what, their federal Liberal members are helping their state Labor government are they? While ours rip each other to shreds?

If our state pulls it's finger out, wakes up from it's slumber, we can easily match WA and surpass them again.
Defence & Space industry. That should be our main focus.
Followed by bio-science/bio-medicine, advanced manufacturing, mining, agriculture, viticulture, steel industry (particularly now with the anti-China sentiment), and tech related fields.
Deals that are signed, should be 100 year deals. So that they can't move something like the submarine maintenance work interstate.
We should be fighting to hold on to everything we have, and fighting to get and hold on to long term everything else.

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Re: SA Economy

#528 Post by Jaymz » Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:39 pm

To be honest, I thought W.A's economy was larger than that, considering their mining industry exports come to tens of billions of dollars each year. Their economy has been struggling for a number of years now though, but that is coming off the largest resources boom Australia has ever seen. In fact Adelaide's median house price will soon over take Perth, if it hasn't already. There was a short period in the noughties where Perth was the second most expensive capital city after Sydney to buy a house.

The best way to compare GSP between the states in on a per capita basis, simply divide the GSP figure by the population
From the figures Rev posted above comes to the following.....

South Australia: $62,941
Western Australia: $70,384
Victoria: $67,575

I'm also surprised that S.A's per capita figure is as close to the other states as that. We're not travelling all that badly but there is definitely room for improvement. We should be trying to at least match the other states on a per capita basis.

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Re: SA Economy

#529 Post by Nort » Tue Jun 09, 2020 9:34 am

rev wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:11 am
https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/business ... 42b9720f68

Ohh look at that, the top industry leaders in the state are talking about bringing SpaceX to Adelaide.
Can't look at that, because it's paywalled.

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Re: SA Economy

#530 Post by Ho Really » Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:12 pm

Nort is this what you wanted?
Virtual round table of South Australia’s influential property industry leaders
Paul Starick
Cameron England, Sunday Mail (SA)
June 6, 2020 9:30pm

Luring Elon Musk’s SpaceX to Adelaide, ultra high-speed internet pockets across the state and regional economic zones are being urged by industry leaders to accelerate recovery from the coronavirus-induced recession.

Influential property sector chiefs surveyed by the Sunday Mail spelled out a series of “big ideas” for reviving the economy, calling for South Australia to capitalise on world-leading success fighting the virus.

Latest figures show housing turnover has declined sharply during the pandemic and building approvals are weakening – down 42 per cent from the cycle’s peak in May 2018.

Hickinbotham Group managing director Michael Hickinbotham said US entrepreneur Mr Musk should be pursued to base at Lot Fourteen the southern hemisphere headquarters of his SpaceX company, which last week launched two NASA astronauts into space.

Mr Musk visited Adelaide in 2017 after his Tesla firm was awarded a deal to build the world’s biggest lithium ion battery in the Mid North.

“Elon Musk knows South Australia well … so, if he based the SpaceX’s southern hemisphere operation in Adelaide, it would be a real game-changer,” said Mr Hickinbotham, who heads the state’s biggest home building firm.

“It would capitalise on the emerging hi-tech hub at Lot Fourteen and South Australia is in a unique position internationally, given we already have a world-class launch facility at Woomera.”

SpaceX did not respond to requests for comment.

Mr Hickinbotham also called for a “migration tsar” to spearhead Premier Steven Marshall’s plan for SA to increase its share of Australia’s population intake.

BankSA chief executive and Westpac general manager SA, NT and WA, Nick Reade, said SA could forge a “technology infrastructure advantage” around the speed and ease of doing business in key pockets around the city and state. This could mirror the GigCity concept that connects firms to ultra-fast and affordable internet in Adelaide, Whyalla and Mt Gambier.

“With housing more affordable and Adelaide having a population that is less dense, the acceleration in working from home could mean more jobs available to South Australians that were previously out of reach,” said Mr Reade, who heads the state’s biggest home lender.

“SA has the opportunity to develop a new global brand focused on health, safety, lifestyle and accessibility. We need to capitalise on these important features to attract more people, which will help address one of the factors that have constrained the long-term potential of SA’s economy – population growth.”

Mr Reade, also a member of the six-person Premier’s Economic Advisory Council, also called for first-home-buyer incentives including deposit guarantees and stamp duty savings on the land component of house and land packages.

He also suggested planning concessions or grants for low-rise development of Adelaide’s fringe. Statistics supplied by Mr Reade show Adelaide home prices have remained resilient yet he said there was a risk of price falls in coming months because of rising unemployment and depressed household incomes.

He said industrial commercial property tended to move with broader commercial activity and this likely would contract until the year’s final quarter, although the logistics sector would outperform because of online spending and might present some opportunities. Mr Hickinbotham and Civil Contractors Federation SA chief executive officer Phillip Sutherland both argued for special economic zones.

Mr Hickinbotham said SA should be designated a special zone with concessional tax rates and migration rules, arguing these had worked well in Asia and Europe.

Calling for government policy to reflect SA’s “patchwork” of economies, Mr Sutherland urged the establishment of regional economic zones.

“The less prosperous regions can be supported by much more focused government financial and other interventions,” he said

“These could extend to reduced or no taxes – including income tax – (and) fees and charges. Housing grants and immigration incentives could be offered. Development approvals can be fast tracked. This is a horses-for-courses approach (with) each region to be considered on its merits.

“The question in respect to each regional economic zone is, what can government do to maximise the potential of prosperous regions and or stimulate the socio-economic prosperity in the regions doing it tough?”

In another call for an industry-specific tsar, Mr Sutherland said a property infrastructure co-ordinator general should ensure appropriate investment in transport and other infrastructure happened at the right time and place to stimulate the sector.

Harris Real Estate managing director Phil Harris said Adelaide’s data centre capacity should be expanded.

“More and more applications will move to the cloud, whereby safe data storage will be of paramount concern for many businesses,” he said.

“People hate the idea of their data being offshore, so with some of our less attractive industrial real estate with no future prospects, the government could incentivise private investment in data centres to make us a security and storage hub.”

Woods Bagot principal Rosina Di Maria said investment in autonomous vehicles and public transport should be supercharged.

“Activate autonomous public transport in the city, and be the first in Australia to evolve public transport with a dispersed system that allows greater individual freedom and avoids concentration of people and vehicles and the associated congestion,” she said.

Property Council state director Daniel Gannon said red tape should be cut to drive construction activity.

“Right now what we need is a State Government with an appetite to take on debt, put cranes across Adelaide’s skyline and undertake the biggest construction boom South Australia has ever seen,” he said.

Housing Industry Association regional executive director Stephen Knight said Adelaide’s strategy for the past decade of embracing medium and high density housing should be reconsidered.

Sunday Mail
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Re: SA Economy

#531 Post by Waewick » Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:29 pm

You can see why SA has been in decline for so long.

Their big ideas are either tax us less or do what every one else would be trying to do.

Although I like Mr Reades thoughts on getting into Mount Gambier and Whyalla.

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Re: SA Economy

#532 Post by SRW » Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:42 pm

You have to love the contradiction of their demands: tax us less but spend more to subsidise us!

Ultimately, the government does need to spend more, borrowing while debt is cheaper than ever. People will not invest here, and will race quicker for the exits, if there's nothing happening. Compare the freefall of the 90s/early 00s to the beginnings of a resurgence in the 10s. The difference? Government investment.

We're at the tail end of Labor's investments and the Liberals are yet to get anything but a few intersection upgrades underway. What are they waiting for? We can't afford for them to wait till the eve of the next election to finally launch or reannounce things promised before the last.
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Re: SA Economy

#533 Post by Nort » Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:22 pm

The biggest thing I agree on there is this:
“Right now what we need is a State Government with an appetite to take on debt, put cranes across Adelaide’s skyline and undertake the biggest construction boom South Australia has ever seen,” he said.
These may be the cheapest times for a government to take on debt that we will see in our lifetimes, the best possible time for massive infrastructure development.

I like the idea of large data centres being lured to South Australia, they could also be powered by renewable energy as part of growing a state brand around it. I don't know what the connections are like to the east coast however if it would be viable here.

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Re: SA Economy

#534 Post by how good is he » Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:43 pm

Good idea the only thing is data centres are very energy intensive. The cost of electricity here is very high compared to places overseas (even with solar/battery storage.)

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Re: SA Economy

#535 Post by SBD » Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:25 am

how good is he wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:43 pm
Good idea the only thing is data centres are very energy intensive. The cost of electricity here is very high compared to places overseas (even with solar/battery storage.)
Some data is required to be held in Australia, so the cost of housing it overseas is irrelevant for those customers (government, national security, privacy). It only has to compete with other states, most of which are on the same electricity grid. The NSW interconnector should help to level the costs across the NEM.

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Re: SA Economy

#536 Post by Spurdo » Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:23 pm

looks like the “manufacturing led recovery“ is gonna be dead before it even begins.

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sou ... b60572c8cd (paywalled)

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Re: SA Economy

#537 Post by SBD » Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:45 pm

Spurdo wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:23 pm
looks like the “manufacturing led recovery“ is gonna be dead before it even begins.

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sou ... b60572c8cd (paywalled)
If I worked in a smelter or mine, I imagine that having an enterprise agreement that allowed a number of days per year of paid downtime on days forecast to have extreme temperature and electricity demand would look pretty attractive. I imagine that those days might also be days that increase the risk of unplanned downtime due to hot-weather-related downtime, so having a planned pause in production would be worthwhile for everyone - and the employer gets paid for it by the wholesale electricity market! The market doesn't have to cover the cost of an extra generator that is only needed a few days a year.

I wonder if some employers find that on those days, they risk being shut down anyway, as the existing arrangements for volunteer firefighter leave result in short staffing.

Nothing says that large electricity users are forced to shut down. It says they have the option to contract to shut down on days of extreme demand, presumably in exchange for a lower price the rest of the time. If they don't want to risk shutdowns, they are welcome to pay for higher assurance, and occasionally be subject to load shedding if the market gets it wrong (no load shedding in SA last summer, and a very long time since the entire list has been cycled through).

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Re: SA Economy

#538 Post by rev » Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:00 am

Olympic Dam one of 15 infrastructure projects to be fast-tracked by Federal Government under new scheme
Tamsin Rose, Federal Political Reporter, The Advertiser
June 15, 2020 10:06am
Subscriber only

Infrastructure projects including BHP’s proposed expansion of Olympic Dam will be fast-tracked as part of Prime Minister Scott Morrison’s plan to build his way out of the COVID-19 recession.

Small-scale projects identified by state governments will also receive funding under a scheme to be announced today.

Mr Morrison will use a CEDA State of the Nation speech to announce 15 projects to be fast tracked by slashing approval times.

BHP’s proposed $3 billion expansion of its Olympic Dam project at Roxby Downs, which would lift copper production to around 350,000 tonnes per annum, is included on the list.

Mr Morrison will also announce a further $1.5 billion to create jobs by “immediately” starting work on small priority projects identified by state and territory governments.

Two thirds of the money will go to “shovel-ready” priority projects and the remaining $500 million will be poured into road safety works.

Mr Morrison will ask “all levels of government” and the business community to “rethink” how regulations can be reformed to boost recovery from the COVID-19 pandemic.

“Many states have already cut approval times,” he was expected to say.

“I’ve asked them all to lift their ambition further, and work with us through the national Cabinet to make deregulation a focus of Australia’s economic recovery.”

Labor leader Anthony Albanese will also address the CEDA conference today. He will lament on how the world had changed since he last spoke at a CEDA event, when “corona was just a beer, not a virus”.

He was expected to outline challenges Australia was facing, including population growth, energy costs and skills shortages.

“These challenges confronted us before the coronavirus and will continue to test us long after the pandemic crisis has passed,” Mr Albanese will say. “Our post coronavirus actions must confront the weaknesses in our pre-coronavirus world.”

Mr Albanese will focus on the importance of looking after the elderly thought a “positive ageing strategy”.

“It will outline a plan to help Australians in their final years of paid work, to build the nest egg that will let them retire when and how they want,” Mr Albanese will say.
https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sou ... a9d2df66a7

Ah that old Olympic Dam promised pot of gold. Will it happen this time? Probably have a better chance of finding a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.

And the red bit, has our state government got any projects identified?

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Re: SA Economy

#539 Post by SBD » Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:41 pm

rev wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:00 am
https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sou ... a9d2df66a7

Ah that old Olympic Dam promised pot of gold. Will it happen this time? Probably have a better chance of finding a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.

And the red bit, has our state government got any projects identified?
It's not clear when a project is advanced "too far" to qualify, nor what is "too early".
  • Tenders have been accepted and contracts signed for Joy Baluch AM bridge, Copper Coast Highway bridge over Augusta Highway and duplication of the highway through Port Wakefield.
  • Work has started on Goodwood and Springbank Roads
  • Property has been acquired for Portrush and Magill Roads
  • I think there has been some kind of announcement for a Fullarton Road intersection?
  • Concept plans announced for Ovingham level crossing
  • Pipe(tunnel) dream of finishing the North South Motorway
  • Other level crossings and intersections need work but haven't been announced.
  • Truro bypass, upgrade of heavy vehicle route between Princes and Sturt Highways
Hopefully something in this list hits the sweet spot for readiness.

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Re: SA Economy

#540 Post by rev » Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:46 pm

SBD wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:41 pm
rev wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:00 am
https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sou ... a9d2df66a7

Ah that old Olympic Dam promised pot of gold. Will it happen this time? Probably have a better chance of finding a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.

And the red bit, has our state government got any projects identified?
It's not clear when a project is advanced "too far" to qualify, nor what is "too early".
  • Tenders have been accepted and contracts signed for Joy Baluch AM bridge, Copper Coast Highway bridge over Augusta Highway and duplication of the highway through Port Wakefield.
  • Work has started on Goodwood and Springbank Roads
  • Property has been acquired for Portrush and Magill Roads
  • I think there has been some kind of announcement for a Fullarton Road intersection?
  • Concept plans announced for Ovingham level crossing
  • Pipe(tunnel) dream of finishing the North South Motorway
  • Other level crossings and intersections need work but haven't been announced.
  • Truro bypass, upgrade of heavy vehicle route between Princes and Sturt Highways
Hopefully something in this list hits the sweet spot for readiness.
Can't they just even start with basic road maintenance projects. Our roads are disgraceful. Even when they re-lay bitumen it' still uneven.

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