CBD Policing & Behaviour

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Jaymz
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Re: 269 North Terrace | 119m | 36 Levels | Student accommodation

#16 Post by Jaymz » Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:49 pm

⬆️

.....that being the homelessness problem in the CBD, or in greater Adelaide, or Australia, or the wealthy western developed economies.

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Re: 269 North Terrace | 119m | 36 Levels | Student accommodation

#17 Post by Llessur2002 » Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:41 pm

I've just ridden my bike down the stretch of North Terrace I referred earlier. This time the glass bus stop has been smashed outside Myers, a recycling bin from the nearby laneway had been dragged to NT, tipped over and there was a group of very angry people throwing glass bottles from it at cars queuing on NT. No police to be seen.

I've rarely felt intimidated walking this stretch but tonight took things to a whole new level.

A new thread would be interesting as long as it can be kept respectful.

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Re: CBD Policing & Behaviour

#18 Post by Norman » Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:09 pm

Topic has been split as suggested. Please keep the discussion respectable, as it has been so far :cheers:

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Re: CBD Policing & Behaviour

#19 Post by Bob » Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:31 am

First you must identify the issue for what it is, and what impact it is having on the immediate community, only then can a true solution be worked out.

And in this instance the problem is a dynamic aboriginal homeless group with daily intoxication problems – substance abuse probably masking deeper psychological and disadvantaged personal issues. The resulting unsociable behaviour is spilling over onto the general CBD community. Moving the problem to another location doesn’t resolve it. Last weekend there was a major event at SA Government House and I noticed this group was nowhere to be seen on North Terrace, by pure coincidence I happened to be going through Whitmore Square later that same day, and there they were with what appeared other homeless groups, by my judgement close on fifty people, and there was the food / service cart for the homeless, now I asked myself - did they get ushered over there with a lure for services that afternoon to move them away or did they go there on their own accord? If they were lured away for the day, then that just stinks of pushing an issue out of sight for a short time to hide a problem.

Back to my first paragraph, if people are not prepared to call the group for what they are, i.e. Aboriginal, in fear of being called a racist, then you are ignoring a key element of the broader issues that need fixing. I for one have never agreed with people of Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander heritage being labelled as such, to me if you are an Australian Citizen that’s what you should be identified as and be expected to adhere to Australian laws, however all sections of Australian society still want to use the label Aboriginal when is suits, and the biggest abuser of exploiting this label when it suits is the Aboriginal people themselves. That approach, despite all the $$$ thrown at ‘Aboriginal’ services over the years has not worked. And therefore I will continue to use the term Aboriginal as that is what they want to identify themselves as.

Time for a different approach.

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Re: CBD Policing & Behaviour

#20 Post by how good is he » Fri Jul 02, 2021 1:11 am

Can you just explain what exactly is the approach you suggest so then we can assess the merits of it?

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Re: CBD Policing & Behaviour

#21 Post by Bob » Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:08 am

how good is he wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 1:11 am
Can you just explain what exactly is the approach you suggest so then we can assess the merits of it?
My statement was ‘time for a new approach’, because what is happening currently does not work, maybe political correctness needs to take a back seat to identify and address the core causes, after all what is being witnessed on the streets is the symptoms, the outcomes of failed policy, for all to see.

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Re: CBD Policing & Behaviour

#22 Post by gnrc_louis » Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:48 pm

Bob wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:08 am
how good is he wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 1:11 am
Can you just explain what exactly is the approach you suggest so then we can assess the merits of it?
My statement was ‘time for a new approach’, because what is happening currently does not work, maybe political correctness needs to take a back seat to identify and address the core causes, after all what is being witnessed on the streets is the symptoms, the outcomes of failed policy, for all to see.
The term "political correctness" has basically zero meaning at this point because people constantly either overuse or use it incorrectly :lol:

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Re: CBD Policing & Behaviour

#23 Post by claybro » Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:37 am

gnrc_louis wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:48 pm
Bob wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:08 am
how good is he wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 1:11 am
Can you just explain what exactly is the approach you suggest so then we can assess the merits of it?
My statement was ‘time for a new approach’, because what is happening currently does not work, maybe political correctness needs to take a back seat to identify and address the core causes, after all what is being witnessed on the streets is the symptoms, the outcomes of failed policy, for all to see.
The term "political correctness" has basically zero meaning at this point because people constantly either overuse or use it incorrectly :lol:
Unfortunately in this case "political correctness" is part of the reluctance of the relevant authorities to either police this issue from a law and order point of view, or the government and council to put policy in place to address it. It is political correctness that has led to the point where peoples freedom to choose to lie drunk in the streets, outweighs the rights of people going about their normal business in peace and safety. It is political correctness that says that whatever the plight of any particular group is, it is always societies fault, rather than individual responsibility for ones own actions. It used to be illegal to be intoxicated in public-you would be put in the cells, but we are trying to keep people out of incarceration to break the cycle of crime, but this is clearly not working. In the particular case of North Terrace-it appears not to be large groups of intoxicated white Anglos or Indian or Chinese, it is Aboriginal...so yes, lets point out the problem and maybe get their elders on board..on site, find alternative accomodation and support services (not just bung them in the parklands) and address the issues. If it is bogan white tradies outside pubs abusing passerby-then address that from a vilification point of view, and/or public nuisance and make the venue accountable. If it is the bikies with loud exhaust disturbing the peace of alfresco diners in Rundle Street-then impound the bikes (loud exhaust used to be illegal) If police aren't attending these incidences-then make the police department accountable by response time reporting. Police/governments are very quick to enter a venue, and check everyone inside has "checked in" using their apps, or that their mask is above their nose from a public health safety point of view, but a large group lying intoxicated in vomit at the War Memorial throwing bottles
at passerby is apparently not considered a public health issue!?

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Re: CBD Policing & Behaviour

#24 Post by Bob » Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:00 pm

Correct, and thank you claybro.

Further proof of this occurred last weekend, Central Districts aired a song over the PA at half time called ‘My boomerang won’t come back’ which apparently caused offence to Aboriginal folk. The story got an airing in the Murdoch papers including The Advertiser, and the nationwide news of ABC, yet these same outlets won’t run a detailed opinion piece, nor an editorial, or even a proper article about the ongoing battlefield on North Terrace so as to not upset a minority?

Centrals did state afterwards it was mistaken to play the song, so they apologised, where is the same apology from representatives of the Aboriginal folk regarding their behaviour on North Terrace?

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Re: CBD Policing & Behaviour

#25 Post by gnrc_louis » Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:37 pm

Bob wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:00 pm
Centrals did state afterwards it was mistaken to play the song, so they apologised, where is the same apology from representatives of the Aboriginal folk regarding their behaviour on North Terrace?
That isn't at all comparable. Centrals are a club who played the song you mentioned, and then apologised for playing said song. They were directly responsible for playing the song - hence the apology. That is a very different circumstance to this, unless you mean the aboriginal people directly involved in the behaviour you speak of around North Tce, apologising? If not, it is the equivalent of you apologising every time an Anglo or whatever nationality you are does something wrong, which I am sure you don't, nor should you have to.

Back to the original point, I don't think "political correctness" is impacting how this "issue" is policed. I walk down North Tce daily on my way to work and often on weekends. When there's illegal activity taking place - fighting, vandalism etc, usually from what I see, the police are there taking action - arresting those responsible etc. When it's just a large group of aboriginal people congregating, the police generally leave them be - as it's not illegal to gather in groups, nor should it be in a liberal democracy such as Australia.

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Re: CBD Policing & Behaviour

#26 Post by rev » Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:27 am

It's not illegal to be drunk in a public place, but the Police have the power to take you to, direct quote from the SAHealth site..
  • the person's home
    a sobering-up unit
    a place proclaimed by the Minister
    a police station.
So why doesn't that happen more often? Not just for Aboriginals, but anyone drunk in public..
Is it practical for police to be taking people home when they're drunk in public?
How many people fit in the "drunk tanks"?
Do Police even have the resources for doing that especially on weekends when on a Saturday night unless you're being murdered the wait time for a Police patrol to attend can be over an hour?

From the SAGov site..
A dry area is a place where you're not allowed to have or drink alcohol. The purpose of a dry area is to curb alcohol-related problems and anti-social behaviour in public areas such as:

reserves
main shopping precincts
car parks
beaches and foreshores
communities where drinking in public places is an indicator of complex social issues.
Is the park area on North Terrace in front of Government House classed a reserve?
How about the various squares in the city? Elder Park?
How about the Pioneer Womens Memorial Garden area on the northern boundary of Government House?

Aboriginal communities obviously have issues with drug and alcohol abuse. Does doing something about it apply only when they are in the APY and Yalata?

Comparing the ongoing issues faced by Aboriginal communities to a few dick heads on a Saturday night who've had their 3 drinks for the week and think they're superman is just trivializing the issues faced by Aboriginal communities.

Hindley Street isn't even that bad anymore. The handful of incidents that happen are sensationalized and dramatized by the media.
It was far worse in the past when it was a thriving night spot from end to end.

"White" Australia helped create the issues, and should help fix them.
And the answer isn't throwing more money at various elders and groups or "businesses" they've setup. Because billions have been thrown at the problems and nothing has been fixed.

Unfortunately because we live in a climate of political correctness and bullshit "wokeness" and the BLM stupidity finding it's way across the Pacific to Australia, we as a society wont ever ask painful but necessary questions to find solutions that may be as equally painful but necessary.

The first and biggest change imo, should be the way Aboriginals are looked at in general. The majority of people when they see an Aboriginal, instantly have negative thoughts. Why? Because of the stereotypes. I wouldn't call it racism, it's more complex then that alone.

Sadly the cycle will just continue.

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Re: CBD Policing & Behaviour

#27 Post by Nort » Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:04 am

It is interesting how many people find the symptoms of the problems faced by Australia's Aboriginal peoples more offensive than the problems themselves.

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Re: CBD Policing & Behaviour

#28 Post by claybro » Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:40 pm

Nort wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:04 am
It is interesting how many people find the symptoms of the problems faced by Australia's Aboriginal peoples more offensive than the problems themselves.
Unfortunately the most visible interaction most people have with Aboriginals in the city, are the minority of hapless groups on the streets. We are all aware of intergenerational plight. The disadvantage, the homelessness, the stolen generations, stolen country. So yes. I believe most fair minded people are upset at the generational family violence, substance abuse, and lack of education. But what to do? What are your suggestions for our useless politicians? What we don’t hear are positive solutions from any of the relevant groups or elders of these communities. Same goes for kids from white families of the above issues by the way. It leads to lack of respect for society and law and order specifically.

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Re: CBD Policing & Behaviour

#29 Post by Nort » Thu Jul 08, 2021 12:25 pm

claybro wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:40 pm
Nort wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:04 am
It is interesting how many people find the symptoms of the problems faced by Australia's Aboriginal peoples more offensive than the problems themselves.
Unfortunately the most visible interaction most people have with Aboriginals in the city, are the minority of hapless groups on the streets. We are all aware of intergenerational plight. The disadvantage, the homelessness, the stolen generations, stolen country. So yes. I believe most fair minded people are upset at the generational family violence, substance abuse, and lack of education. But what to do? What are your suggestions for our useless politicians? What we don’t hear are positive solutions from any of the relevant groups or elders of these communities. Same goes for kids from white families of the above issues by the way. It leads to lack of respect for society and law and order specifically.
Which elders of the communities have you spoken to or have heard being given platforms in the media to discuss these things?

Also which elders do you refer to? It was suggested in this thread that many of these individuals were displaced from interstate (Don't know if this is correct or not). Assuming it is do you refer to the elders they are physically separated from (and may indeed have no connection to) or the local elders of entirely different people?

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Re: CBD Policing & Behaviour

#30 Post by claybro » Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:15 pm

Nort wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 12:25 pm
claybro wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:40 pm
Nort wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:04 am
It is interesting how many people find the symptoms of the problems faced by Australia's Aboriginal peoples more offensive than the problems themselves.
Unfortunately the most visible interaction most people have with Aboriginals in the city, are the minority of hapless groups on the streets. We are all aware of intergenerational plight. The disadvantage, the homelessness, the stolen generations, stolen country. So yes. I believe most fair minded people are upset at the generational family violence, substance abuse, and lack of education. But what to do? What are your suggestions for our useless politicians? What we don’t hear are positive solutions from any of the relevant groups or elders of these communities. Same goes for kids from white families of the above issues by the way. It leads to lack of respect for society and law and order specifically.
Which elders of the communities have you spoken to or have heard being given platforms in the media to discuss these things?

Also which elders do you refer to? It was suggested in this thread that many of these individuals were displaced from interstate (Don't know if this is correct or not). Assuming it is do you refer to the elders they are physically separated from (and may indeed have no connection to) or the local elders of entirely different people?
That is a good question, and not one for me to answer-so lets just ignore the problem and keep locking them up? I assume this is a genuine question on your part, but you have not offered any alternative possibilities. I did watch an interview on the news with an APY elder speaking on behalf of his people from outside his home in the Northern Suburbs of Adelaide. His whole issue was displaced people because of a history of stolen country- fair enough, and yet he apparently does not reside on country. I'm not sure I understand why when faced with inter generational problems, we are told it relates back to stolen country, and therefore loss of spiritual connection, by people that aren't "on country", and who have the ability to live in relative freedom on their lands local Adelaide plains people aside. I do not claim to know what the answer is, or how to find, or make the community leaders more accountable, they seem easy enough for the media to find when they want-to speak on behalf of their mob.-It was just a suggestion to the destructive cycle we now witness, bearing in mind I live in Perth, where the situation is now way out of hand.

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