Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

All high-rise, low-rise and street developments in areas other than the CBD and North Adelaide. Includes Port Adelaide and Glenelg.
Goodsy
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

Post by Goodsy »

I think the horse has already bolted on having provision for a central railway station inside the development. The alternative should be a line up the middle of PWR like the Mitchell Freeway in Perth
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rev
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

Post by rev »

SBD wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:15 pm
rev wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:09 pm
Nort wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:33 pm


Nothing necessarily wrong with that so long as there is a long term vision. Problem with many of these developments is that they seem to have no long term planning beyond the lifetime of the developers sales center.
And why isn't the state government doing something about it?
The government has the power to ensure they incorporate provisions for public transport like a train line/station. But how are they going to do that when there is no plan from the government it self of where or if there will be a train service up that way?

It's a government failure, no point ragging on the developers about it.
We can't complain that more freight should be travelling on rail at the same time we expect there to be metro rail on the ARTC main line between Salisbury and Virginia. The plans on the sa.gov.au website have three bus routes through the development, which will go closer to more houses than a single rail spur could be close to.

The City of Playford planning documents do seem to show a reasonable amount of forward planning for some things, but then miss other bits like the Angle Vale Super School that will open next year.
I'm not saying put metro trains on the freight lines, you can't anyway different gauge tracks I believe, someone with more knowledge on trains correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm suggesting building a metro line along the same route, next to the freight line similar to how part of the Gawler line runs side by side with the freight line through the suburbs.
That would take in Virginia and Two Wells, Waterloo Corner, Penfield, Direk, Burton, Salisbury North, Edinburgh.
Future extensions could take in Penfield Gardens, MacDonald Park, Angle Vale.

All are areas of current and bigger future urban growth.

Buses shouldn't be the main go to option for public transport, they create congestion.
Trains and trams should be the main go to options.
Park and ride facilities can be built, level crossings can be removed.

This state needs to stop looking at things in terms of how much it's going to cost, but what will be gained, what the benefits will be.
The benefits far out weigh the cost to build.
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

Post by SBD »

rev wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:04 pm
SBD wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:15 pm
rev wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:09 pm


And why isn't the state government doing something about it?
The government has the power to ensure they incorporate provisions for public transport like a train line/station. But how are they going to do that when there is no plan from the government it self of where or if there will be a train service up that way?

It's a government failure, no point ragging on the developers about it.
We can't complain that more freight should be travelling on rail at the same time we expect there to be metro rail on the ARTC main line between Salisbury and Virginia. The plans on the sa.gov.au website have three bus routes through the development, which will go closer to more houses than a single rail spur could be close to.

The City of Playford planning documents do seem to show a reasonable amount of forward planning for some things, but then miss other bits like the Angle Vale Super School that will open next year.
I'm not saying put metro trains on the freight lines, you can't anyway different gauge tracks I believe, someone with more knowledge on trains correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm suggesting building a metro line along the same route, next to the freight line similar to how part of the Gawler line runs side by side with the freight line through the suburbs.
That would take in Virginia and Two Wells, Waterloo Corner, Penfield, Direk, Burton, Salisbury North, Edinburgh.
Future extensions could take in Penfield Gardens, MacDonald Park, Angle Vale.

All are areas of current and bigger future urban growth.

Buses shouldn't be the main go to option for public transport, they create congestion.
Trains and trams should be the main go to options.
Park and ride facilities can be built, level crossings can be removed.

This state needs to stop looking at things in terms of how much it's going to cost, but what will be gained, what the benefits will be.
The benefits far out weigh the cost to build.
Someone had suggested on here using the standard gauge tracks, discussing how to get standard gauge railcars into Adelaide station.

The alternative of building a new metro route leads to the question of whether the corridor is wide enough or can be widened in an acceptable manner. There is a new road on the former Penfield railway through Salisbury North (where Hilra station was) and the industrial development seems to go right up to the rail corridor. Maybe removing the shrubs between the railway and (residential) Langford Terrace would provide sufficient space. If this section was no longer required after the Northern Connector section was built, that would help.

The Northern Expressway bridges may need to be replaced with longer ones. It currently has two standard gauge tracks and a service road. Maybe ARTC can be convinced it doesn't need the Bolivar passing loop to make space for metro rail.

I'm not saying it can not be done. I am questioning whether the passengers would be there to make it cost-effective. Lots of other parts of Adelaide are served by buses. Virginia has been served by a couple of buses a day, and it seems that public transport to industry has been mostly removed in the last forty years, including removal of the Penfield and Holden railway lines.
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

Post by PeFe »

The developers of Riverlea have offered an incentive for the first 100 hundred people who buy house and land packages. :D

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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

Post by TorrensSA »

Only way rail would be justified would be if the salt pans got developed into housing with 20,000+ people and a train line spured off just after Dry Creek, it would have about 4 stations, the stations would be: at the new estate at the salt pans, Paralowie West, Virginia and Riverlea. The line would service over 100,000 people, you split the Gawler line in two, the Riverlea line would stop at all stops and the Gawler line would run express to Dry Creek which would be an interchange between the lines. Its 35km so would take 35min, but the new salt pans would only be about 18min and the new big interchange at "Paralowie West" 22min to ARS. The train would run at 100km/h between the salt pans and Riverlea. It would run mosty down the centre of Port Wakefield Road between Globe Derby Park and Virginia. It's only a good option if the salt pans turn into housing, I have no clue how big they are but looking at maps they look something like 2 or 3x the size of Mawson Lakes (residential area), Mawson Lakes has about 15,000 people so this new suburb could have up to 50,000, unlikely but something around 20 to 30k is likely if it's developed. Pretty pie in the sky, but Riverlea is pretty crazy.
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

Post by Goodsy »

TorrensSA wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:12 pm
Only way rail would be justified would be if the salt pans got developed into housing with 20,000+ people and a train line spured off just after Dry Creek, it would have about 4 stations, the stations would be: at the new estate at the salt pans, Paralowie West, Virginia and Riverlea. The line would service over 100,000 people, you split the Gawler line in two, the Riverlea line would stop at all stops and the Gawler line would run express to Dry Creek which would be an interchange between the lines. Its 35km so would take 35min, but the new salt pans would only be about 18min and the new big interchange at "Paralowie West" 22min to ARS. The train would run at 100km/h between the salt pans and Riverlea. It would run mosty down the centre of Port Wakefield Road between Globe Derby Park and Virginia. It's only a good option if the salt pans turn into housing, I have no clue how big they are but looking at maps they look something like 2 or 3x the size of Mawson Lakes (residential area), Mawson Lakes has about 15,000 people so this new suburb could have up to 50,000, unlikely but something around 20 to 30k is likely if it's developed. Pretty pie in the sky, but Riverlea is pretty crazy.
You're forgetting Two Wells
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

Post by SBD »

Goodsy wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:22 pm
TorrensSA wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:12 pm
Only way rail would be justified would be if the salt pans got developed into housing with 20,000+ people and a train line spured off just after Dry Creek, it would have about 4 stations, the stations would be: at the new estate at the salt pans, Paralowie West, Virginia and Riverlea. The line would service over 100,000 people, you split the Gawler line in two, the Riverlea line would stop at all stops and the Gawler line would run express to Dry Creek which would be an interchange between the lines. Its 35km so would take 35min, but the new salt pans would only be about 18min and the new big interchange at "Paralowie West" 22min to ARS. The train would run at 100km/h between the salt pans and Riverlea. It would run mosty down the centre of Port Wakefield Road between Globe Derby Park and Virginia. It's only a good option if the salt pans turn into housing, I have no clue how big they are but looking at maps they look something like 2 or 3x the size of Mawson Lakes (residential area), Mawson Lakes has about 15,000 people so this new suburb could have up to 50,000, unlikely but something around 20 to 30k is likely if it's developed. Pretty pie in the sky, but Riverlea is pretty crazy.
You're forgetting Two Wells
If Buckland Park is "too far", then why go another 7km with a bridge over the river that has to be maintained and amortised?
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

Post by Nort »

TorrensSA wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:12 pm
Only way rail would be justified would be if the salt pans got developed into housing with 20,000+ people and a train line spured off just after Dry Creek, it would have about 4 stations, the stations would be: at the new estate at the salt pans, Paralowie West, Virginia and Riverlea. The line would service over 100,000 people, you split the Gawler line in two, the Riverlea line would stop at all stops and the Gawler line would run express to Dry Creek which would be an interchange between the lines. Its 35km so would take 35min, but the new salt pans would only be about 18min and the new big interchange at "Paralowie West" 22min to ARS. The train would run at 100km/h between the salt pans and Riverlea. It would run mosty down the centre of Port Wakefield Road between Globe Derby Park and Virginia. It's only a good option if the salt pans turn into housing, I have no clue how big they are but looking at maps they look something like 2 or 3x the size of Mawson Lakes (residential area), Mawson Lakes has about 15,000 people so this new suburb could have up to 50,000, unlikely but something around 20 to 30k is likely if it's developed. Pretty pie in the sky, but Riverlea is pretty crazy.
Yeah, there wouldn't be enough to justify regular service right now, but it's likely that in coming decades it will get there and if there's no space for it set aside now it will never happen once needed.
rev wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:09 pm
Nort wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:33 pm
SBD wrote:
Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:22 pm


"District Centre" is the same planning level as the Munno Para Shopping City and the Salisury town centre. It is one down on Regional Centre which is Elizabeth's planning zone. I expect it will be two decade before we see that!
Nothing necessarily wrong with that so long as there is a long term vision. Problem with many of these developments is that they seem to have no long term planning beyond the lifetime of the developers sales center.
And why isn't the state government doing something about it?
The government has the power to ensure they incorporate provisions for public transport like a train line/station. But how are they going to do that when there is no plan from the government it self of where or if there will be a train service up that way?

It's a government failure, no point ragging on the developers about it.

Who's ragging on the developers? The point of saying that is no planning beyond that needed by the developer is that there needs to be other input from the government etc.
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

Post by cmet »

House and land packages are now for sale
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rev
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

Post by rev »

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SBD
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

Post by SBD »

rev wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:05 am
Image
The picture looks like a nice aspirational vision. I can't work out what the multi-storey buildings by the lake are meant to be, as the high school isn't proposed to be near the lake.

Water level in the picture looks way too high to be able to handle flood or even heavy rain on the estate as the lawn appears dead flat to the road. The detailed planning does appear to have taken more care about these sorts of things, so the problem is that the marketing artists don't consult with the engineers.
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

Post by Goodsy »

SBD wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:26 am
rev wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:05 am
Image
The picture looks like a nice aspirational vision. I can't work out what the multi-storey buildings by the lake are meant to be, as the high school isn't proposed to be near the lake.

Water level in the picture looks way too high to be able to handle flood or even heavy rain on the estate as the lawn appears dead flat to the road. The detailed planning does appear to have taken more care about these sorts of things, so the problem is that the marketing artists don't consult with the engineers.
It's a conceptual picture.. you don't have to read in to it that deeply
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

Post by wilkiebarkid »

Earthworks from this month.

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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

Post by Nort »

We drove past a couple of weeks ago, there's a bunch of small hills separating the development from the highway, along with a bunch of palm trees.
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