News & Discussion: Trams

Threads relating to transport, water, etc. within the CBD and Metropolitan area.
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prometheus2704
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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4531 Post by prometheus2704 » Sat May 08, 2021 12:06 am

ChillyPhilly wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 10:08 pm
how good is he wrote:If the Crows HQs moves to Bowden (vs Thebarton) a new tram extension/stop down Port Rd (between say Chief St and Milner St) could service this and also Hindmarsh stadium.
I would also like one more tram stop to AO but I have read that just the bridge would first need $50m spent for this to occur.
That $50m figure is based on some erroneous early opinion, based on reinforcement for the bridge for 'heavy rail' - which a tramline is not.
I hope we’re not going to get into the argument about the structural integrity of the King William Street Bridge over the Torrens?

Maybe someone can answer these questions for me before the thread goes down that path again.
  • When was the bridge built?
  • When did the bridge last undergo major works?
  • What’s the average lifespan of a ridge of this type?
  • Why are heavy vehicles required to detour this bridge?

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4532 Post by ChillyPhilly » Sat May 08, 2021 12:10 am

prometheus2704 wrote:
ChillyPhilly wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 10:08 pm
how good is he wrote:If the Crows HQs moves to Bowden (vs Thebarton) a new tram extension/stop down Port Rd (between say Chief St and Milner St) could service this and also Hindmarsh stadium.
I would also like one more tram stop to AO but I have read that just the bridge would first need $50m spent for this to occur.
That $50m figure is based on some erroneous early opinion, based on reinforcement for the bridge for 'heavy rail' - which a tramline is not.
I hope we’re not going to get into the argument about the structural integrity of the King William Street Bridge over the Torrens?

Maybe someone can answer these questions for me before the thread goes down that path again.
  • When was the bridge built?
  • When did the bridge last undergo major works?
  • What’s the average lifespan of a ridge of this type?
  • Why are heavy vehicles required to detour this bridge?
No argument from me - the bridge will definitely need reinforcement.

Just not to serve heavy rail.
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All views expressed on this forum are my own.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4533 Post by rubberman » Sat May 08, 2021 9:57 am

ChillyPhilly wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 12:10 am
prometheus2704 wrote:
ChillyPhilly wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 10:08 pm
That $50m figure is based on some erroneous early opinion, based on reinforcement for the bridge for 'heavy rail' - which a tramline is not.
I hope we’re not going to get into the argument about the structural integrity of the King William Street Bridge over the Torrens?

Maybe someone can answer these questions for me before the thread goes down that path again.
  • When was the bridge built?
  • When did the bridge last undergo major works?
  • What’s the average lifespan of a ridge of this type?
  • Why are heavy vehicles required to detour this bridge?
No argument from me - the bridge will definitely need reinforcement.

Just not to serve heavy rail.
Amen. Plus, of course, let's face it, IF the bridge is past its use-by date, then lets upgrade it all at once, rather than half for trams, then another half some time later for cars and buses. That was the approach for the Port Road Bridge, and was sensible. Designing the Adelaide City Bridge for heavy rail, and also without taking the opportunity to upgrade for other traffic was destined to make trams uneconomic. Plus, I would point out that bus axle loads are pretty close to tram axle loads, so if the bridge really is that bad that trams can't use it without upgrading, it can't be that much further in time till an upgrade for them is required.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4534 Post by PD2/20 » Sat May 08, 2021 2:16 pm

rubberman wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 9:57 am
Amen. Plus, of course, let's face it, IF the bridge is past its use-by date, then lets upgrade it all at once, rather than half for trams, then another half some time later for cars and buses. That was the approach for the Port Road Bridge, and was sensible.
...
I assume that you are referring to the Port Road Bridge over the Torrens (also known as the Hindmarsh Bridge) rather than the bridge over the railway near the Police Barracks. However wasn't it the case that both bridges were built with separate spans for the outbound and citybound lanes and that an additional span was added later in the median to carry the tram tracks. The present Hindmarsh Bridge was constructed in 1995-96. See Sections 5.6 and 5.7 in https://portal.engineersaustralia.org.a ... 202014.pdf for descriptions of the Hindmarsh Bridge work.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4535 Post by rubberman » Sun May 09, 2021 1:15 pm

PD2/20 wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 2:16 pm
rubberman wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 9:57 am
Amen. Plus, of course, let's face it, IF the bridge is past its use-by date, then lets upgrade it all at once, rather than half for trams, then another half some time later for cars and buses. That was the approach for the Port Road Bridge, and was sensible.
...
I assume that you are referring to the Port Road Bridge over the Torrens (also known as the Hindmarsh Bridge) rather than the bridge over the railway near the Police Barracks. However wasn't it the case that both bridges were built with separate spans for the outbound and citybound lanes and that an additional span was added later in the median to carry the tram tracks. The present Hindmarsh Bridge was constructed in 1995-96. See Sections 5.6 and 5.7 in https://portal.engineersaustralia.org.a ... 202014.pdf for descriptions of the Hindmarsh Bridge work.
Yes, as it was presented at the time, the only work to be done on the Adelaide Bridge was the tram track. No overall plan for minimising overall cost. The way the Hindmarsh Bridge was done was to leave a nice clear section to put trams on. There's no complaint about that from me.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4536 Post by rubberman » Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:26 pm

Bib and Bub Citadis heading to Victoria Square.
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Spotto
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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4537 Post by Spotto » Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:58 pm

rubberman wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:26 pm
Bib and Bub Citadis heading to Victoria Square.
Strange, do we know why a tram coming from the RAH/Ent Ctr is terminating at Vic Square? I've only ever heard of Vic Square terminating trams coming from Glenelg, didn't know they did it for North Terrace trams. There isn't a crossover to send them back to North Terrace, unless it crosses over at Rundle Mall and goes the "wrong" way down KWS, or kicks all passengers off at Vic Square and returns to Glengowrie or the South Terrace turnback?

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4538 Post by AG » Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:01 pm

Spotto wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:58 pm
rubberman wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:26 pm
Bib and Bub Citadis heading to Victoria Square.
Strange, do we know why a tram coming from the RAH/Ent Ctr is terminating at Victoria Square? I've only ever heard of Victoria Square terminating trams coming from Glenelg, didn't know they did it for North Terrace trams.
The Botanic Line between North Terrace and Botanic Gardens is out of action due to infrastructure fault - the Botanic Line trams are being diverted to Victoria Square as a result.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4539 Post by PD2/20 » Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:41 pm

Spotto wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:58 pm
rubberman wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:26 pm
Bib and Bub Citadis heading to Victoria Square.
Strange, do we know why a tram coming from the RAH/Ent Ctr is terminating at Vic Square? I've only ever heard of Vic Square terminating trams coming from Glenelg, didn't know they did it for North Terrace trams. There isn't a crossover to send them back to North Terrace, unless it crosses over at Rundle Mall and goes the "wrong" way down KWS, or kicks all passengers off at Vic Square and returns to Glengowrie or the South Terrace turnback?
Surely the crossover at the S end of the Vic Sq stop can be used to reverse trams from North Terrace. Tram arrives at southbound platform, then heads on to beyond crossover and reverses over crossover into northbound platform before leaving towards North Tce.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4540 Post by Norman » Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:43 pm

Maybe there is not enough room available at the Entertainment Centre and along the track to store all those extra trams.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4541 Post by rubberman » Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:13 pm

Norman wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:43 pm
Maybe there is not enough room available at the Entertainment Centre and along the track to store all those extra trams.
Hi, I'm not sure what you are getting at. Why do they need extra trams?

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4542 Post by Norman » Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:41 pm

rubberman wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:13 pm
Norman wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:43 pm
Maybe there is not enough room available at the Entertainment Centre and along the track to store all those extra trams.
Hi, I'm not sure what you are getting at. Why do they need extra trams?
Normally some of those trams will be in the Adelaide Railway Station to Botanic Gardens corridor, but if that section is closed off they will need to be somewhere else in the system.

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Re: News & Discussion: Trams

#4543 Post by rubberman » Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:18 pm

Norman wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:41 pm
rubberman wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:13 pm
Norman wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:43 pm
Maybe there is not enough room available at the Entertainment Centre and along the track to store all those extra trams.
Hi, I'm not sure what you are getting at. Why do they need extra trams?
Normally some of those trams will be in the Adelaide Railway Station to Botanic Gardens corridor, but if that section is closed off they will need to be somewhere else in the system.
Ah. That "somewhere else" is between Vic Square and Nth Tce. That distance and time is about the same as between the Botanic Garden and King William Street. So it suits quite well.

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