Main South Road & Victor Harbor Road Upgrade

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Archer
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Re: Main South Road & Victor Harbor Road Upgrade

Post by Archer »

rev wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:46 pm
I guess that's where property acquisition and possibly access roads parallel to Main South Road can come into play.
Hopefully this upgrade sees the removal of the traffic lights at the southern end of the Southern Expressway.
Unfortunately they won't. These upgrades start well south of the end of the Southern Expressway.
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Re: Main South Road & Victor Harbor Road Upgrade

Post by Spotto »

rev wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:46 pm
Hopefully this upgrade sees the removal of the traffic lights at the southern end of the Southern Expressway.
Ideally within the next 10 years the expressway should be extended over MSR, the hill and the river to join Victor Harbor Road (probably around where Wheaton and Warners Roads are). This would be critical once the missing link at T2D eventually completes the North-South Corridor and should be built before T2D is finished, essentially extending the corridor to run from Nuriootpa and beyond to Willunga and beyond. All through traffic to/from VHR would then just drive straight through non-stop instead of snaking onto MSR to make the connection between the expressway and VHR.

The arrangement at the current southern terminus would likely remain largely unchanged whether this link gets built or not.
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Norman
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Re: Main South Road & Victor Harbor Road Upgrade

Post by Norman »

Here are the flythroughs for both projects:

Victor Harbor Road:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYVBJJC_TR4

Main South Road:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5pNL2W0lU0
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Re: Main South Road & Victor Harbor Road Upgrade

Post by Spotto »

Thank god when they built the McLaren Vale overpass they had the foresight to build it with duplication in mind, otherwise we'd be dealing with more problems.
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Re: Main South Road & Victor Harbor Road Upgrade

Post by Patrick_27 »

Considering the overall investment, I'm surprised they haven't put a little more toward the project and create a M2-grade link between the Southern Expressway and this portion of Victor Harbour Road.
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Re: Main South Road & Victor Harbor Road Upgrade

Post by SBD »

Patrick_27 wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:16 pm
Considering the overall investment, I'm surprised they haven't put a little more toward the project and create a M2-grade link between the Southern Expressway and this portion of Victor Harbour Road.
That would need grade separated intersections at the end of the expressway and at Victor Harbor Road, and probably Seaford/Patapinda Roads. Thses could be done as stand-alone projects at some stage. It looks like the next section already has a land provision for some widening, whether it is wide enough to provide service roads for the driveways as well as a freeway through the middle, I don't know.

As dual-carriageway limited access roads spread, there will be more pressure to fill the gaps, and to extend them further.

Once the NS Motorway is completed, the need to connect it to the SE Freeway will be even more obvious. Extending the upgraded main roads further in all directions will also be important in future, but I have never seen a full 50-year plan that might include four-lane highways with town bypasses all the way from Adelaide to Port Augusta, state border past Renmark, State border at Pinnaroo, state border at Bordertown, Mount Gambier, Victor Harbor, Cape Jervis and Wallaroo.
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Re: Main South Road & Victor Harbor Road Upgrade

Post by Spotto »

Patrick_27 wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:16 pm
Considering the overall investment, I'm surprised they haven't put a little more toward the project and create a M2-grade link between the Southern Expressway and this portion of Victor Harbour Road.
That will certainly come with time. The need to complete the duplication of Victor Harbor Road from McLaren Vale to join the existing duplication at Willunga and a direct SExy link to Victor Harbor Road will likely arise when the North-South Motorway is eventually completed.

With luck, these projects will be commissioned to coincide with the final stages of NSM so that they can open around the same time. This would essentially extend SExy south to the top of Willunga Hill.
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Re: Main South Road & Victor Harbor Road Upgrade

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Any direct link between the Southern Expressway and Victor Harbor Road will require bridges over the Onkaparinga River and also significant cuttings into the hilly landscape around it.

You would also be going through the Onkaparinga River National Park, which could be problematic. There are a lot of walking trails in that park and a lot of native fauna that would be disturbed.
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Re: Main South Road & Victor Harbor Road Upgrade

Post by SBD »

Norman wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 7:55 pm
Any direct link between the Southern Expressway and Victor Harbor Road will require bridges over the Onkaparinga River and also significant cuttings into the hilly landscape around it.

You would also be going through the Onkaparinga River National Park, which could be problematic. There are a lot of walking trails in that park and a lot of native fauna that would be disturbed.
Does the current bridge already have two lanes each way plus a median? The question could be "what is lost if the current bridge becomes the motorway?" with an interchange close to the river on each side. It looks like there is even a shared path bridge nearby already for bikes and pedestrians who would be banned from the motorway.
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Re: Main South Road & Victor Harbor Road Upgrade

Post by Norman »

SBD wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 10:37 pm
Norman wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 7:55 pm
Any direct link between the Southern Expressway and Victor Harbor Road will require bridges over the Onkaparinga River and also significant cuttings into the hilly landscape around it.

You would also be going through the Onkaparinga River National Park, which could be problematic. There are a lot of walking trails in that park and a lot of native fauna that would be disturbed.
Does the current bridge already have two lanes each way plus a median? The question could be "what is lost if the current bridge becomes the motorway?" with an interchange close to the river on each side. It looks like there is even a shared path bridge nearby already for bikes and pedestrians who would be banned from the motorway.
You're talking about using the existing route? Sorry, I thought you meant using a more direct route to the east of the current alignment.
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Re: Main South Road & Victor Harbor Road Upgrade

Post by SBD »

Norman wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 12:38 am
SBD wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 10:37 pm
Norman wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 7:55 pm
Any direct link between the Southern Expressway and Victor Harbor Road will require bridges over the Onkaparinga River and also significant cuttings into the hilly landscape around it.

You would also be going through the Onkaparinga River National Park, which could be problematic. There are a lot of walking trails in that park and a lot of native fauna that would be disturbed.
Does the current bridge already have two lanes each way plus a median? The question could be "what is lost if the current bridge becomes the motorway?" with an interchange close to the river on each side. It looks like there is even a shared path bridge nearby already for bikes and pedestrians who would be banned from the motorway.
You're talking about using the existing route? Sorry, I thought you meant using a more direct route to the east of the current alignment.
I had not thought of a high level bridge over the gorge east of Old Noarlunga. I imagine that would be a lot more expensive than upgrading the present route if the reserved land is still wide enough.

In my mind, we are building intercity freeways. We should not be aiming to extend the range of a forty five minute commute to the Adelaide CBD from McLaren Vale and Two Wells at the other end.
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Re: Main South Road & Victor Harbor Road Upgrade

Post by Archer »

SBD wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 10:37 pm
Norman wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 7:55 pm
Any direct link between the Southern Expressway and Victor Harbor Road will require bridges over the Onkaparinga River and also significant cuttings into the hilly landscape around it.

You would also be going through the Onkaparinga River National Park, which could be problematic. There are a lot of walking trails in that park and a lot of native fauna that would be disturbed.
Does the current bridge already have two lanes each way plus a median? The question could be "what is lost if the current bridge becomes the motorway?" with an interchange close to the river on each side. It looks like there is even a shared path bridge nearby already for bikes and pedestrians who would be banned from the motorway.
Yes, the current Bridge over the Onkaparinga is two lanes each way + Median and a small buffer zone. Upgrading this section to 3 lanes in each direction, including the bridge, between the Southern Expressway and Seaford Road would do a lot to improve traffic flow in the area, particularly once the Victor Harbor Road Duplication to McLaren Vale is complete. It would also remove the horrendous north bound lane merge from Seaford Road leading up to the Bridge over the river which causes absolute chaos. Making this a through lane to the Expressway instead would ease congestion here significantly.

I don't know if the river road bridge over main south road would need any work to fit 6 lanes + stopping lanes, it would be pretty tight as is unless the stopping lanes were removed for this section.

If they do upgrade Southern Expressway to Seaford Road section, it would be good to see the section between Seaford Road and Griffiths Drive at least resurfaced as well, it's pretty rough in places at the moment.
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Re: Main South Road & Victor Harbor Road Upgrade

Post by dbl96 »

SBD wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:13 pm
Patrick_27 wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:16 pm
Considering the overall investment, I'm surprised they haven't put a little more toward the project and create a M2-grade link between the Southern Expressway and this portion of Victor Harbour Road.
That would need grade separated intersections at the end of the expressway and at Victor Harbor Road, and probably Seaford/Patapinda Roads. Thses could be done as stand-alone projects at some stage. It looks like the next section already has a land provision for some widening, whether it is wide enough to provide service roads for the driveways as well as a freeway through the middle, I don't know.
The superior option would be a new stretch of expressway running directly from the end of the Southern Expressway, across the Onkaparinga, and merging seamlessly into the Victor Harbor Road corridor at the point it swings south. This option would considerably shorten the route, improve amenity in the Noarlunga region (by removing heavy traffic from residential areas), and be simpler to execute (as it would not require a Darlington-style complex grade separation involving dealing with the multitude of existing roads and properties in the Noarlunga urban area).
SBD wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:13 pm
As dual-carriageway limited access roads spread, there will be more pressure to fill the gaps, and to extend them further.

Once the NS Motorway is completed, the need to connect it to the SE Freeway will be even more obvious. Extending the upgraded main roads further in all directions will also be important in future, but I have never seen a full 50-year plan that might include four-lane highways with town bypasses all the way from Adelaide to Port Augusta, state border past Renmark, State border at Pinnaroo, state border at Bordertown, Mount Gambier, Victor Harbor, Cape Jervis and Wallaroo.
The budget announced today provides funding for the duplication of the Augusta Highway from Port Wakefield to Locheil, and for planning for duplication of the highway as far as Port Pirie.

I agree, the lack of a long term plan is frustrating. Our leaders lack a strong, comprehensive and realistic vision of how the road network should develop over the long term, and this leads to poorly integrated band-aid solutions being used when localised pressures on the network grow too great and have to be fixed.
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Re: Main South Road & Victor Harbor Road Upgrade

Post by Patrick_27 »

dbl96 wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 1:00 pm
The superior option would be a new stretch of expressway running directly from the end of the Southern Expressway, across the Onkaparinga, and merging seamlessly into the Victor Harbor Road corridor at the point it swings south. This option would considerably shorten the route, improve amenity in the Noarlunga region (by removing heavy traffic from residential areas), and be simpler to execute (as it would not require a Darlington-style complex grade separation involving dealing with the multitude of existing roads and properties in the Noarlunga urban area).
It would also be an environmental disaster, there's no way that an environmental report would be able to justify the damage that option would do to the local area. Not to mention it would infringe on the McLaren Vale wine region which now (thankfully) has zoned protections.
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Re: Main South Road & Victor Harbor Road Upgrade

Post by [Shuz] »

Since when has environmental impact statements ever got in the way of a politician or transport department proceeding with projects anyway?

Case in example, North East Link in Melbourne. The EIS is absolutely scathing of the project. A 16 lane freeway is still getting built anyway.
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